Τεράστιο πλήγμα για το τουρκικό TF-X από την αποχώρηση της Rolls-Royce

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Γεώργιος παρασκευοπουλος

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Η σωστή διπλωματική τακτική εκ μέρους μας θα αλλάξει εν καιρώ και τα στρατιωτικά δεδομένα. Μην δίνουμε παραπανω σημασία από την πρεπουσα στο παιχνίδι εντυπώσεων των απέναντι. Ασκησεις, εξοπλιστικά προγράμματα, γεωτρυπανα κτλ.. Το παιχνίδι αυτή την στιγμή είναι διπλωματικό. Ούτε οι Αμερικανοί είναι φίλοι μας ούτε οι Ρώσοι εχθροί μας. Απλά ακολουθούν το συμφέρον τους και στην προκειμένη περίπτωση τα δικά μας συμπίπτουν με αυτά των Αμερικανών

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George K.

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+1

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α.ο.

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Ακριβώς!
Πρέπει να σταματήσουμε να βλέπουμε το γεωπολιτικό παιχνίδι υπό το πρίσμα “καλού-κακού”.
Μόνο ευθυγραμμισμένα συμφέροντα υπάρχουν.
Τίποτα άλλο.

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sotbak

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+1

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Cobra Kai

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+1

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Makis Armeniakos

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Και που είδες εσυ συμπτωση συμφεροντων; Ως συνηθως οι αλλοι κοιτανε τα συμφεροντα τους και εμεις υποτακτικοι τα δινουμε ολα χωρις ναπαιρνουμε απολυτως τιποτα! Σκοπια Αιγαιο Κυπρος μεταναστευτικο παντου δικαιο εχουμε και αντι για στηριξη παγερη ουδετεροτητα που οι απεναντι αξιοπιουν ως δικαιωση τους! Δωσαμε βασεις διευκολυνσεις εφαρμοσαμε εμπαρργκο, πουλησαμε πιστη υπακοη και αφισιωση και εισπραξαμε μνημονια, κατηγοριες και ευτελισμο! Α! Και επι της ουσιας αφοπλισμο…μ

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ηλιασ

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+2

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Chris

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Όπως τα λέτε

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moustafex

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νέο
καλό
ανεξαρτησία
κεμαλ
googletranslate
ΓιατιΛεωΜιαΛεξηΑναΠροταση???

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George K.

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Γι’ αυτό…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN_F_bUZWHc

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Alex

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Eσύ τη λές εμάς ρωτάς; Βάλε στο τέλος κάθε λέξης το stop, όπως στα τηλεγραφήματα

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randomname

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Παιδιά δεν θέλω να σας τρομάξω. Αλλα υπάρχει μια περίπτωση στο εκατομμύριο το σχόλιο να ήταν ειρωνικό και αυτός να μην είναι όντως ο μουσταφά. Μια ιδέα δινω…

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ΒΑΣΙΛΗΣ

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Ε ναι..δεν είναι ο Moustafa, είναι ο Moustafex.
Είναι ένα εξελιγμένο μοντέλο με καινούργιο σύστημα αυτοπροστασίας (τρολαρισματος), καινούργιο υπολογιστή πτήσης (λάπτοπ) και κάναρντς πίσω από το πιλοτήριο (μουστάκι).
Άσε δε που έχει και αυξημένη εμβέλεια.. εξού και το Moustaf-ex… extender range δηλαδή…
Χαχαχαχαχα

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Αλεξανδρος

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Μηπως η λύση για τον κινητηρα έρθει απο Ρωσία η ακομα κ Ουκρανία μερια;

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George K.

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Δεν μπορούν να συγκριθούν με το επίπεδο τεχνολογίας που κατέχει η Δύση. Είναι τουλάχιστον 20 χρόνια πίσω…

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Kapoios

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Όσο πίσω θα είναι και το Τουρκικό “υπερμαχητικό” όταν και αν κατασκευαστεί, σε σχέση με ένα F-16… Μια χαρά ταιριάζουν…

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Can

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First flight of F-22 with its Engine was 1997 so by the Time Russia should have plans for Su-57.
They would not share probably Technology of their latest stuff but it would be enough, if they sell off the Shelf a Engine for TFX. This would give Turkey the time needed, to develope an own Engine. I think Turkey has ferwer problems to be dependent on Russia then on the West. (Think of Russian gas and Nuclear deal, S400…)

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Ένας τύπος

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“Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.” Remember these words, difficult times are just around the corner for your pathetic barbaric country, you will pay for your delusions in hard currency, I’m already making pop corn

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Can

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If more people of your Country have the same atitude, you will probably achieve not much and keep being the pawn on the Chessboard…To try to achieve independence is not a pride but only natural. Look at Countries like Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland…..they joined EU later then Greece but are ahead of you when it comes to Defence and other Technological Industries. Have they a special pride? I dont want to offend you guys but…..Greece is falling behind, and is going to be one of the most backward Countries in the EU when it come to Industries. Concidering the Engine….… Read more »

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Chris

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Building an army that can defeat at the same time 4 of your neighbours is not a policy of indipendence but of conquest in order to realise the neo-ottoman dreams of the wannabe sultan. No one was and no one is threatening the independnce of Turkey, Turkey was and is threatening the independence of others. Today more so than in the past. Turkey is not building a defensive army, but an invasion force. It is your choice to make and you will reap the benefits of this choice or pay the price. You will forgive us if we wish for… Read more »

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Can

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Ok by that logic….who is threatening France, Germany, Britain who live in a peacefull Area, that they pump billions for new Weapon developments? Threat is Russia?
Turkey has no threats in its Neighborhood?
Do you see what is happening arround Turkey in Iraq, in north Syria?
Greece is only one Parameter in this Picture. With or without Greece, Turkey has no other Chance to be as powerfull as Possible.
Why should we lean back and give our Security to the mercy of others, while Western countries who are living in peace area dont do it???

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α.ο.

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Look at the numbers. France has about 220 fighter jets and 400 Leclerc MBTs. Germany has 250 fighters and 328 leo2. The UK has 142 EF2000, will order up to 48 F35 and has 331 Challenger-2 MBTs. These are G7 countries and have only a fraction of your armed forces. Your megalomania is sick and is costing money to your concerned neighbors. I sincerely hope your economy crashes (as it seems it will), so this madness on your part comes to an end.

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Thras

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Πάει κι αυτό… το Erdoganski πλησιάζει!

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Stmts

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Αλλο ενα φιασκο…αναμενομενο. Κριμα και ετοιμαζαν οι παρατρεχαμενοι να γεμισουν τις βαλιτσες απο τις μιζες.Mετα τους s400 θα ακολουθησουν ρωσικα αεροσκαφη,αυτο λεει η λογικη.

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ΒΑΣΙΛΗΣ

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Τα Σουχόι πλησιάζουν κι άλλο..!
Αν δεν γίνει τελικά το TFX, Su-57 για τα 100 χρόνια από την ίδρυση του σύγχρονου Τουρκικού κράτους εμένα να μην με λένε Βασίλη.

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Νάσος

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Αν εννοείς το έτος 2023, ψάξε καινούριο όνομα, γιατί το Su-57 δε θα είναι έτοιμο και τελικά δε θα σε λένε Βασίλη…:)

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ΒΑΣΙΛΗΣ

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Γιατί, το να αποφασίσει ο σουλτάνος να μπει στο πρόγραμμα και να αρχίσει να χρηματοδοτεί το project, και στις παρελάσεις για τα 100 χρόνια,το 2023, να δεις τα δοκιμαστικά Su-57 με τα τουρκικά εθνόσημα πάνω από την Κωνσταντινούπολη, με παχυλά λόγια περί οθωμανικής αυτοκρατορίας,και το πόπολο από κάτω να τα καταπίνει αμάσητα, το αποκλείεις??
Να το το τουρκικό αεροσκάφος 5ης γενιάς…
Υ.Γ. Νάσσο θα με λένε αν είναι..το νου σου φίλε.. χαχαχα

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Manolis

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Δε μασαει ο σουλτανος. Θα πεταξει το τουρκικο αεροσκάφος 5ης γενιάς στις παρελάσεις του 2023, ακομα και με J-79.

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Flight and Space

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J-79; Τους βάλατε ιδέες!

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Spirit

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Με κινητήρες πλάσμα… τα πετάξει το νέο μαχητικό.

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gdmast

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Κανά χαρταετό, μπορεί να πετάξει το 2023, μαχητικό δεν.

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Makis

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Η ιδρυση του συγχρονου τουρκικου κρατους δεν ειναι το 1923 Αυτο ειναι ενα ψεμα αναμεσα στα αλλα που διαδιδουν οι Τουρκοι για να απαλλαγουν απο τις ευθυνες περι γενοκτονιων. Ειναι τουλαχιστον το 1920 οπου στη συνθηκη των Σεβρων υπεγραψαν ως Τουρκιακ και οχι ως Οθωμανικη αυτοκρατορια

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sotbak

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αν δεν πάρουν τελικά τα Φ-35Α είναι μεγάλη πιθανότητα να δούμε αντί SU GR-35 SU TR-35!!!

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ΒΑΣΙΛΗΣ

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Το 35αρι το πιάνουνε δηλαδή. Στο “Σου” και “Φου” τα χαλάνε…

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Babis_UK

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Καλο!!

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Babis_UK

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Ερωτημα
Πιο καλες μιζες ποιοι δινουν?
Οι Αγγλοι της RR ή οι Ρωσοι της Sukhoi

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Αναγνωστης

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Εδω δεν φαινεται να ειναι ζητημα μιζας, ειναι προστασια τεχνογνωσιας. Φαινεται πως ζητανε πιο πολλα απο οσα διατιθεται να δωσει ο βρετανος. Κατι αντιστοιχο συμβαινει και με τα patriot.

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gdmast

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Ούτε καν αντιγραφή. Όλα έτοιμα τα θέλουν.
Σε κουτάκια και με οδηγίες χρήσεως και συναρμολόγησης.

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κωνσταντίνος

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Οι άγγλοι ενδεχομένως ευθηγραμίστηκαν με την πολιτική πίεσης των αμερικάνων. H πνευματική ιδιοκτησία ήταν και ένας απο τους λόγους που δεν προχώρησε το su-57 στην ινδία. η απροθυμία όλων να πουλήσουν τεχνογνωσία κρίσιμη δείχνει πως είναι πολυτιμότερη μακροπρόθεσμα απο τις ίδιες τις πωλήσεις των όπλων. Πόσο πιθανό είναι να δώσουν οι ρώσοι την ίδια τεχνογνωσία στους πολύ μικρότερους Τούρκους; Πως θα αναπτύξει αεροσκάφος 5ης γενιάς όταν δεν μπορεσε καν να αναπτύξει ένα πολύ πιο απλό αεροσκάφος 3ης γενιάς; πως θα αποσβεστεί το τεράστιο κόστος ανάπτυξης και επενδύσεων με την αγορά μόλις 100 αεροσκαφών; Μια απάντηση είναι το κατάρ. “Η κυβέρνηση… Read more »

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G-164g ag-cat

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20 δις πολλά δεν είναι; Μήπως είναι λιγότερα κι από 2 δις;

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κωνσταντίνος

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πηγή υπάρχει

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ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ

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Η μέγκενη σφίγγει τον Ταγίπ. Δύο είναι τα τινά. S-400 και Su-57 ή F-35 και Patriot; Στην πρώτη περίπτωση έχει τιμωρία από USA. Στην δεύτερη;

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Νεκτάριος

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Το πολύ mig 29 θα πάρει άν πάρει ….το su 57 έχει πολύ σοβαρά προβλήματα . Αν μπει σε παραγωγή θα μπεί σε 5-6 χρόνια με πρώτες παραδώσεις για την Ρωσική πολεμική αεροπορία

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George K.

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Μην στεναχωριέστε βρε μεμέτια.., υπάρχουν πολλές εναλλακτικές λύσεις.
Πολυ καλή επιλογή είναι το F-313, θα σας δώσουν και πλήρη πρόσβαση στο πρόγραμμα, σας βλέπω κομπλέ…

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TED

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Eάν δεν κάνω λάθος, η RR συμμετέχει ήδη στο Tempest
Δεν θα ήταν περίεργο να συμμετέχει η RR σε δύο ανταγωνιστικά προγράμματα ;
Και μάλιστα όταν οι τούρκοι απαιτούν μεταφορά τεχνογνωσίας και πνευματικά δικαιώματα ;
Οπότε οι τούρκοι θα στραφούν υποχρεωτικά στους πάντα πρόθυμους για συνεργασίες και πωλήσεις τεχνολογίας Ρώσους. Εκτός και εάν υπάρξει κάποια έκπληξη από κάποια ασιατική χώρα

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Onair

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Μέχρι το 2023 δεν θα υπάρχει ο Σουλτάνος και στη εκκαθάριση του καθεστώτος του όλοι αυτοί οι σχεδιασμοί θα ανατραπούν.
Γιατί μας διαβάζει και ο Mustafa…

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TAEC

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An irritating article, lacks too many details. Rolls Royce entered a joint venture in 2017 with turkish Kale Groupe, where it holds 49%. https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases/2017/08-05-2017-rr-and-kale-group-create-defence-aero-engine-joint-venture.aspx The negotiations with SSB, were stalled when RR refused to transfer IP to the newly created “TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation” and warrents no export limitations. In November SSM signed another and additional Engine development project with BMC/TRmotor. So the chances of RR/Kale getting low without turkish IP and export possibilities. So they scaled back their venture in Turkiye.

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rommel

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denies news
link;
https://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-haberleri/kale-gruptan-rollsroyce-aciklamasi.html

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JohnnyB

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Αναμενόμενο αφού η Τουρκία απαιτούσε μεταφορά τεχνολογίας κινητήρων δίνοντας ψίχουλα.

Το ανατολίτικο παζάρι έχει κ τα όρια του και οι Βρετανοί έχουν και οδυνηρό ιστορικό προηγούμενο μεταβίβασης τεχνολογίας κινητήρων στην τότε Σοβιετική Ένωση λίγο μετά την λήξη του Β’ΠΠ που ήταν σήμανε την έναρξη της ρωσικής αεροπορικής βιομηχανίας.

Δεν θα ήταν μακριά και ένα τέτοιο σενάριο με την
Τουρκία αυτή τη φορά που μέχρι τώρα μόνο εμβολοφορα ελαφρά αεροσκάφη, ελικόπτερα και UAV παράγει με άδεια.

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x-m

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Αυτό που μια εταιρία (και μια χώρα) έχει καταφέρει με προσπάθεια δεκαετιών και επενδύσεις πολλών δισ. (και αυτός ο κινητήρας θα είναι αποτέλεσμα ενός background που έχει η RR) δεν το έχει για χάρισμα επειδή κάποιος εμφανίζεται μια μέρα έστω και με σοβαρά χρήματα και λέει “αγοράααααααααααζω” . Όσο φίλοι και να είναι οι Άγγλοι όλα έχουν όρια . Αναστενάζουν υπερδυνάμεις με ιστορία στην αεροναυπηγική να αναπτύξουν ένα αεροσκάφος και η τουρκία θα το φτιάξει τσάμπα και σε 10 χρόνια; (Ρητορικό το ερώτημα).

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Αλεξανδρος

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Εδω κοτζάμ Pratt & Whitney με τον Geared Turbofan για το A320neo και το C-Series έπαθε τρομερή ζημιά μονο κ μονο γιατι έκανε χρήση νέων υλικών στο θάλαμο καύσης κ το πρόβλημα στο Νο.03 bearings πήγαν να τους κλείσουν….κ θα χτίσουν οι Τούρκοι κινητήρα αεροσκάφους 5ης γενιάς με εξαγορά τεχνολογίας (ολα δικά τους τα θέλουν) απο την RR….ΠΟΤΕ.
GE, RR, P&W, SNECMA, MTU…οι άλλοι άντε γεια…

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Ντίνος

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Μην στεναχωριέστε Τουρκαλάδες , θα σας δώσουν τα φιλαράκια σας οι Γερμανοί νέο κινητήρα VW που θα είναι τόσο πρωτοποριακός , που θα καίει και μπακλαβά και ιμάμ μπαιλντί.

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TurkishDelight

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Sorry to burst your bubbles but Turkish industry succesfully developed all titanium, nikel and titanium alloys and new processing technologies including additive production technics under the name of tens of R&D programs. The single crystal turbine blades are proved to be effectively working in 1700 degree celcius temperature thanks to TEI developed super cooling and composite covering technologies on blades. What does all those development means? Yes, Turkey joined into the league og a few country which is succesfully develop such a critical section of a gas turbine engine and After those developments, TEI officially requested to develop 27000lbf turbofan… Read more »

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sotbak

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keep on dreaming…Super powers won’t let you

Τεράστιο πλήγμα για το τουρκικό TF-X από την αποχώρηση της Rolls-Royce

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